Hosta

This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Greece C‑class Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Romania C‑class Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Romania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Romania-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.RomaniaWikipedia:WikiProject RomaniaTemplate:WikiProject RomaniaRomania articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. To-do list: Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Help Romania reach at least GA-status Help History of Romania get WP:GOOD Request an article or create a missing one Assess : Assess all articles tagged for this project that have not been assessed for quality Cleanup : Review the Romania-related cleanup listing Normalize the use of "Northern Bukovina" (capitalized) and "Northern Bessarabia" (Bessarabian part of Chernivtsi Oblast) all over Wikipedia Disambiguation : Disambiguate project articles and get points Expand : Expand Postage stamps and postal history of Romania Translate : Translate Romania-related articles from the Romanian Wikipedia Translate and keep in sync with the project versions in other languages: Projet:Roumanie (in French), Proiect:România (in Romanian), Проект:Румыния (in Russian) Unreferenced : * Add more reference to FC CFR Timișoara. Other : Make use in articles of the newly contributed images (about 5800!!) from the Wiki Loves Monuments Romania 2011 (WLM Romania external site) Review newly created Romania-related articles Check the articles needing expert attention or other work, and help with some of the items Create Awards for WikiProject Romania Contribute photos related to Romania at Commons:WikiProject Romania. Organize Romania related images on Commons. See also media-related tasks Biography C‑class This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. Olympics C‑class Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Olympics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Olympics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OlympicsWikipedia:WikiProject OlympicsTemplate:WikiProject OlympicsOlympics articles C This article has been rated as C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

As noted in Talk:Pierre de Coubertin, a few citations or references would be nice to have to back up the claim that Zappas founded the modern Olympic Games. Actually, there aren't any references. --Kimon 19:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I'm not arguing the notability of the person, just the text in the article. --Kimon 19:31, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cripes, I look away for a few months and the article gets infested with POV-pushing. [1] was one of the sources I used in creating the article (original text: [2]), along with a page at athens2004.net which is now offline. It's still a good source, and draws the distinction between the Zappian Olympic Games founded by Zappas and the current incarnation of the Olympics. The Games of Zappas pre-dated Coubertin's Games and were an inspiration for him, but the Zappian Games folded after 1875. The modern Olympic Games run by the IOC are a different set of Olympic Games. -- Jonel | Speak 23:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The older edit is a lot better and definitely NPOV. I propose reverting it to that version. If there are no objections, I'll do it. --Kimon 01:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually there are plenty of references to back up the fact that Zappas funded the first modern international Olympic Games. If you don't look you don't find. Nipsonanomhmata 15:30, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the "Olympics through Time" source reference should be deleted. The information is second or third hand. It adds nothing that isn't already in the other sources which are original source references. Nipsonanomhmata 15:30, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't right to say that the Zappas Olympic Games "folded". Zappas did not just sponsor Olympic Games and he left more than enough money in his legacy to keep the Games going for a very long time. Zappas provided an infrastructure that was used in 1870, 1875, 1896, 1906, and 2004. Nobody else has provided infrastructure for the Olympic Games with such longevity. Describing what Zappas did as having "folded" is short-sighted since the Panathenian stadium has not folded and neither has the Zappeion. In fact, the Olympic Games are still going and the IOC has used Zappas' infrastructure twice since 1896. The Zappeion was used as the Olympic media center in 2004. Clearly, if it "folded", it's been unfolded and reused. Nipsonanomhmata 15:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I asked a citation for his greek ancestry, but nothing is available online. The Zhapa family is Albanian according to some Albanian sources. I really want to believe that the Zhapa were greeks, but there are so many Zhapa family names in Albania and I really don't know any greeks with the Zappas last name, that I really don't know if we are saying the truth here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sulmues (talk • contribs) 18:00, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've provided 5 'rs', saying that he was born Greek in a Greek village by Greek family. About the name, that's really interesting but still dont see the point on that here. I've checked also Zappas testament which is avaible online, he states clear that he is Greek without leaving doupts.Alexikoua (talk) 20:27, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alexikoua are you kidding me? He had the choice of either stating:

1. - I am a Greek
2. - I am a Turk

As we both know that Albania did not exist at his time of death, hence he could not have the nationality of a country that did not exist yet. Anyways I'll have to bring some references that he is more likely to have been Albanian. I know pretty well Labova and there are no greeks there, that's for sureSulmues (talk--Sulmues 21:18, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Greek/Turk dillema is irrelevant since he lived in Romania after the end of the Greek Revolution.Alexikoua (talk) 21:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So you are proposing the Romanian/Greek dilemma? Solved by Evangelis as "Greek"? Again, he didn't have the option of giving himself the "Albanian" nationality, because such nationality did not exist at the time. Sulmues (talk --Sulmues 22:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest not to ignore 'rs' material. You are confusing nationality with ethnicity, and Albanian ethnicity, existed that time.Alexikoua (talk) 05:42, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I personally am very skeptical about his ethnicity. My impression is that the Labovits have been exclusively Albanians in 1800 (and still are), however they would speak Greek pretty well as a second language since (1) it was the language of the church (2) many of them had emigrated in Greece to conduct better business (3) it was the language of many business activities. In addition, people would usually go to Greek schools organized by the Church, so they knew Greek pretty well since it was taught since their childhood. Now saying that the labovits were Greeks is going the extralength: speaking Greek as a second language does not make you a Greek and I can assure you that I know Labova pretty well. It would be the equivalent of saying that half of the Albanians today are Italian because they watch the Italian television so much that they know Italian as a second language at an impressive quality! Dr. Fedhon Meksi, great, great, great, great nephew of Vangjel Meksi teaches us that the Zhapas were grecophiles, and the Meksi clan were Albanofiles, but none of them are greek (see here [3])! Another more scholarly source [4] simply tells us that Vangjel Zhapa was a rich Albanian. If we start confronting sources we'll be soon edit warring, so the talk page is where we should reach consensus. Simply put, the sources that are currently in the article are not giving sufficient information, actually they are not giving no information at all, because they are not verifiable. Since we're at it, I also disagree with you saying that he Zappa is from Northern Epirus. He was born in the what was called Pashalik of Yanina: Northern Epirus came into existance as a political region only in 1914 when he had already died, hence I disagree with your revert. Could we please discuss? You are saying that the sources say he was from Northern Epirus, but I don't see those sources. Could you please bring them to the talk page? Btw you deleted two sources in the Pashalik of Yanina article [5] because they were not verifyable, but your sources that are here about his origin are not verifiable either and you are relying on them to show that Zappa was from Northern Epirus. I have one more reference ([6], see page 9/19) that says:

Austrian travellers who visited Lunxhëri,most of them arriving from Ioannina, described the Lunxhots as Albanian-speaking Orthodox Christians, and had the feeling that, starting north of Delvinaki, they were entering another country, although the political border did not exist at the time. Greek was not spoken as it was further south; there was a change in the way of life and manners of the peasants. As one traveller reported Hobhouse 1813:

Every appearance announced to us that we were now in a more populous country. (...) the plain was every where cultivated, and not only on the side of Argyro-castro [Gjirokastër]… but also on the hills which we were traversing, many villages were to be seen. The dress of the peasants was now changed from the loose woollen brogues of the Greeks, to the cotton kamisa, or kilt of the Albanian, and in saluting Vasilly they no longer spoke Greek. Indeed you should be informed, that a notion prevails amongst the people of the country, that Albania, properly so called, or at least, the native country of the Albanians, begins from the town of Delvinaki; but never being able, as I have before hinted, to learn where the line of boundary is to be traced, I shall content myself with noticing the distinction in the above cursory manner. In this place [Qestorat, in Lunxhëri] everything was on a very different footing from what it had been in the Greek villages. We experienced a great deal of kindness and attention from our host; but saw nothing in his face (though he was a Christian) of the cringing, downcast, timid look of the Greek peasant. His cottage was neatly plastered, and white-washed, and contained a stable and small ware-room below, and two floored chambers above, quite in a different style from what we had seen in Lower Albania. It might certainly be called comfortable; and in it we passed a better night than any since our departure from Ioannina.

Still think that Vangjel Zhapa was a Greek? He was born around that time when the traveller was writing his memories. In addition, not only Labova has alwasy been Albanian, but also Qestorat that has historically been more filogreek and from where Georgios Christakis-Zografos was, seems to be 100% Albanian according to this impartial British traveller. Sulmues (talk --Sulmues 01:16, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What I can conclude is that the entire english speaking bibliography, without any wp:synth exaggerations clearly says that he was ethnic Greek, no matter if the villages in his homeland were of mixed ethnicity. What I see is that Zappas was a Greek nationalist and partiot [[7]], (his testament [[8]]). I inform you that the source you brought talks about 'fluid' identities in southern Albania [[9]] and not of a racial purity

Moreover, read about wp:rs and Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is in order to see how wiki operates..Alexikoua (talk) 07:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hm, from the two references that you brought: Golden, the first one, is saying that Zappas was born in Greece, so he seems to be ill-informed as Greece did not exist at that time. We all agree that he spent all his life for Greece only, but we are discussing his ethnicity, which is still open to be proved. The testament: gotta download that rar thingie but now don't have the time. As soon as I do I'll submit it to google translator. Now, the Austrian traveller clearly says:

they no longer spoke Greek

which is no "fluid identity" to me. Sulmues (talk--Sulmues 21:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your quest to prove the region's racial purity reminds me on some tottalitarian practices and does not touch me. Alexikoua (talk) 06:15, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree and I will ask for a third opinion. Sulmues (talk--Sulmues 22:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been already peer reviewed.Alexikoua (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to add to this article the Albanian taskforce project. Vangjel Zhapa is Albanian and I provided above lots of sources. And I could continue. One thing at a time. Sulmues (talk--Sulmues 22:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately you provided nothing, apart from two nationalistic sources that are pov by sight [[10]]([[11]] a Albanian 1960s one). This article has nothing to do with tf:Albania. Why dont you try your luck with Napoleon Bonaparte? You said you have several sources that confirm his Albanian origin [[12]]. You might be more lucky there.Alexikoua (talk) 22:27, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you like this? [13]Sulmues (talk--Sulmues 06:26, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I understand why you are pushing this argument and trying to find any reference that might give your POV any glimmer of hope but it genuinely is pointless. The parents of Evangelis Zappas were Greek. He fought in the Greek War of Independence because he was a proud Greek patriot. He was the aide-de-camp of some of the greatest Greek heroes of the Greek War of Independence. He sponsored the building of Greek Orthodox Churches that conducted services in the Greek language. He founded schools that taught the Greek language. The guy was so proud to be Greek that he bought the ancient Panathenian stadium to guarantee its future and refurbished it to host the Olympic Games for all time. One of his most important friends was Panagiotis Soutsos a Greek newspaper editor who wrote a glowing report about Zappas in his Helios newspaper calling him the greatest Greek hero of modern times. Trying to claim that Zappas was anything other than Greek is clearly an effort to massage history for political self-interests. It's just not worth pushing that POV. I appreciate your entertaining efforts. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 03:23, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you know the history of the 19th century of Southern Albania very well. The Lunxheri region had suffered for 4 centuries the muslim Albanians stealing their land. With the establishment of Greece and the independence from Turkey, they would become not only Greeks but also Sudanese, just to have the freedom from the Turks. Most of the Lunxhots were emigrants for generations because of the poor resources of Lunxheri. The whole Lunxheri region was 100% Albanian, and the only reason why they spoke Greek was because of the Church schools, which could teach Greek, based on agreement that the Phanariot Patriarchate of Constantinople had stipulated with the Higher Porte, while the Albanian language could not be taught, nor was an Albanian Autocephalous Orthodox Church formed yet. Zhapa opened a Greek school because it was impossible to open an Albanian school. The Zhapa were Albanians and I know the Labove village quite well personally, so please don't lecture me on things that I know. --sulmues (talk) 03:48, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

His testament is here [[14]], and confirms what the current article describes. Just for the news, Greek officials and the Zappeion institute initiated the renovation of Zappas mansion in Labovo and the old school, since it was completely neglected by the local authorities.Alexikoua (talk) 10:21, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pandelis Sotiris (1843–1891), a Greek, founded the first Albanian language school in Korçë (1887). But Evangelis Zappas was founding Greek language schools. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 00:52, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[Moving the tabs over to the left so that we use up less space and starting a new heading.] Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 00:43, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You failed to mention the Greek War of Independence and the Panathenian stadium. Are you going to tell me that it was actually the Albanian War of Independence and that Panathenian is a common Albanian surname too? Are you going to claim that his shares in the Greek Steamship company were Albanian? Why did he leave his vast fortune for the re-establishment of the Olympic Games in Athens in Greece? If he were as Albanian, as you say he is, then why didn't he build a stadium where he was born. Why didn't he appoint any Albanians in the first all-Greek Olympic Committee? If he were an Albanian as you suggest, which he was not, what an incredibly stupid Albanian he must have been who was prepared to die for the liberation of Greece, was building schools to spread the Greek language in foreign countries, and Greek churches in foreign countries. Why did he build the Zappeion and why is it the National Exhibition Centre of Greece? A man who cared so much for Greek Independence, the Greek language, the Greek Orthodox Church, re-establishing the Olympic Games could not possibly be Albanian. Most notably his behaviour was the exact opposite of your behaviour on WP. Evangelis Zappas is a Greek national hero. There is no Zappeion in Albania or Romania. He had his head and his wallet buried in Greece. Albania got his bones (excluding his skull). All Romania got was his flesh. Evangelos and Zappas are Greek names too. Evangelio means "gospel" and Zappas is a Greek name too. Only nobody had to change the name to make it Greek. The name was Greek all along. And ofcourse, Albania didn't exist at the time. He was born in Ottoman-occupied north-western Greece in a corner of what once was a part of the Byzantine Empire. The word "Hellene" is used by all Greek-speakers from all the ancient peoples of Greece. He was a "Hellene", he was a Greek-speaker, he was proud to be a Hellene and he showed it in many ways. His behaviour was exactly the opposite of yours (since you are doing everything in your power to change Greek history in to Albanian history). You cannot call him Albanian in retrospect. He wasn't born in Albania. His people were Hellenes not Albanians. If you want to call him an Epirote. That's ok with me. Epirotes are Greek. But are you so desperate you need to recruit a Greek patriot and hero in to your cause. Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 00:44, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If someone has something (serious) to say about Zappas being related with Albania, suppose he should initiated a discussion here. Since he is irrelevant with Albania, I've removed the bot-added wpsq.Alexikoua (talk) 18:54, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to the following sources he was Albanian:

• Clayer p.201
• Prishtina Review p.83
• Islami, Frasheri Buda p.81

Above, I had entered sources that the whole village of Labove at the time of Zhapa, Rapper, p.9 was Albanian. I interrupted the talk earlier because a user who called Pandeli Sotiri a Greek and insulted me continuously interrupted a discussion. Now that user has a ban on the Balkans. --Sulmues ^(talk) 19:04, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop misusing Rapper, he says NOTHING about him being Albanian. Also about Clayer you have been instructed by Fut. that he does NOT say that (see Greek-Albanian cooperation board). You don't believe that Pristina&Islami tow stalinist period Albanian sources re rs right? Alexikoua (talk) 19:41, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Even the Prishtina article doesn't seem to claim that he was Albanian; from what I can make out, it only refers to him donating wheat to the city of Bucharest. Constantine ✍ 20:03, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Clayer clearly says "orthodoxes fortune' d'origine Albanaise". Check again in p. 201 [15]. The Prishtina article is called Gjurmime Albanologjike, Albanological Research and speaks about the Albanians. There is a book Labova nder Shekuj, [16], that would clarify this, but then I get the wp:fringe for everything that is not inline. The proposed move that you have is a sign that he's not Greek, because you guys can't even get to decide what his name was in Greek. In Albanian it is Vangjel Zhapa. --Sulmues ^(talk) 21:18, 23 July 2010 (UTC) Now I have to add something else: Saying, like Alexikoua does, that books published in communist Albania aren't reliable, are the equivalent of me saying that books published in a capitalistic country aren't reliable because their writers are brainwashed, because their brains are submerged by the heavy advertising of soft drinks, which with their high sugar and sodium content, potentially further damage their brains, but I wouldn't say that, because it is highly disputable. Alexi, I would invite you to refrain from commenting on things that you barely know. In communist Albania there were excellent publications, and there were some bad ones, as would happen anywhere, even in modern Greece now. Saying that a book was published in a communist country therefore not reliable is pure madness. --Sulmues ^(talk) 21:26, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"The proposed move that you have is a sign that he's not Greek, because you guys can't even get to decide what his name was in Greek" is that supposed to be a serious argument? Or the fact that there is an Albanian version of his name? Was Aristotle perhaps English, because there is an English version of his name? And regardless of what the journal is called, there is no evidence that a) Zappas is called an Albanian there and b) the journal speaks only about Albanians, so that everyone mentioned in it must be an Albanian (perhaps Bucharest is an Albanian city by the same reasoning?). Sorry for the heavy dose of sarcasm, but this is a very very low-level argument...Re the "d'origine albanaise", it appears a good enough source, although I don't know what reservations Fut raised, so I'll hold out on this until someone kindly points me to them. Constantine ✍ 21:40, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fut's comments: [[17]]. Alexikoua (talk) 21:54, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's ok if you are sarcastic, no harm done. This is supposed to be FPS input on this article, and I can't see anything he says on Clayer. --Sulmues ^(talk) 21:46, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, upon a second viewing, there is a problem here: "orthodoxes d'origine albanaise" is not the same as "Albanians who are of the Orthodox faith". All it means is "Orthodox people from Albania", it does not directly state any Albanian self-identification. Quite the contrary, in fact, for in Ottoman times Orthodox=Greek (well, almost). Zappas may have had an interest in the codification and spread of the Albanian language, but I would hesitate to call him an Albanian without major qualifications based only on this one source. And along comes the source provided by Zjarri, which states that his parents were Greek-speaking. "Greek-speaking"+"Orthodox" means pretty conclusively "Greek", and this squares with most of his life's work. Constantine ✍ 22:03, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Clayer uses "Orthodox" in the modern sense, but even if she used it in the context of early 19th century, there were plenty of Orthodox Albanians at that time, so Orthodox is not equal to Greek. This would be a Venizelos like move who went to the Peace Conference in Paris in 1919 claiming 120k Greeks in Albania, even if we very well know that he was counting all the Orthodox Albanians as Greeks. If Venizelos had been right, how come we have 600,000 Albanian Orthodoxes now? Since sources disagree I think it should be mentioned in the article that some scholars think that he was of Albanian origin. --Sulmues ^(talk) 22:25, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that is why I added the "almost". The fact is, up to ca. 1840 almost any Orthodox who received an education was hellenized. Either way however, Zjarri's own source points to his family being Greek-speaking. I really don't see how "Albanian" in the sense of belonging to the Albanian ethnos can be sustained here. Constantine ✍ 22:39, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

the usual...zappas came from an albanianspeaking village (but i dont know if his family were vlach or greek speaking) but he clearly wasn't 'albanian'87.202.35.131 (talk) 04:19, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move

Evangelos Zappas → Evangelis Zappas

Evangelis was the exact name he used (it's also the preferred name form of Evangelos in Epirus). This is obvious in various inscriptions: in his statue in front of Zappeion and his crypt (and also according to his testament) .Alexikoua (talk) 20:17, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. I trust Alexi's expertise 100% on these issues. Constantine ✍ 20:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I don't see anything wrong with it remaining at Evangelos, but if he himself used the Evangelis form, then that is an extra point we must consider. Constantine ✍ 22:39, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. The move should be made to Vangjel Zhapa as he is clearly Albanian per sources above. --Sulmues ^(talk) 21:29, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sulmues, even if we all somehow agreed that he was of Albanian origin, even the source you gave above to support your view uses his Greek name, and so should we, per WP:COMMONNAME. Constantine ✍ 22:03, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment:Evangelis is not a preferred name of Evangelos in Epirus. There are no preferred names, people don't choose the morphology of the names they use because that is a trait of the language they speak not a matter of choice. The morphological alteration is such because definite forms of oxytone names in Albanian end with the suffix -i and because of that the common name of that person has that suffix, not because a group of people chose to use that. Alexikoua should change his request accordingly and ask for a move per common name in English.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 22:16, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Albanian language is irrelevant here, so I see no serious argument to change something.Alexikoua (talk) 22:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Albanian language to someone who would examine this linguistically is very relevant but of course not all have the the knowledge to do such a thing which leads to common errors like your "preferred names" statement.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 23:02, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would appreciate if you stop with the trolling comments this time.Alexikoua (talk) 06:58, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per Alexikoua. Athenean (talk) 22:45, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can foresee that this source will be denied because it would not qualify as a reliable source [18], however it has links to many works on Vangjel Zhapa from Vangjel Meksi, Qirjako Hila, Thanas Hoda, Thanas Meksi, Ilir Kontini, Agron Alibali, Fedhon Meksi, Filip Boga, Koço Toti, Dhimo Mali, Fejzi Hoxha, and Foto Toti. It also links how Vangjel Meksi was for full 5 years his master of popular medicine when he went to Janina (from when he was 13 years old until he became 18). He learned from Meksi the folk physician profession. In addition it contains valuable info on the lawsuit for his $800M wealth left in Istanbul, which was eventually pocketed by the Greek government in 1960 through the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople--Sulmues ^(talk) 04:39, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fedhon! A classical Albanian name!
Sulmues, please realise that Mussolini and Hoxha period is over. Half of the people you display above are national Greeks. --Euzen (talk) 18:13, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, was Zappas Greek or Vlach? Because somewhere is that he was Vlach, so i wonder to know it, because i know that his village is not in vlachophone part of Albania. Thanks.--213.151.217.149 (talk) 10:37, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Greek AND Vlach. In case that you are not aware, "Vlach" is a lingual minority and not an ethnicity. Vlach language, or Aromunic, is a Latin language. Different ethnicities speak Vlach, mainly Greeks, Romanians, other Slavs and Albanians. See Vlachs for more. As for his nationality, just see were he spent his money as a National Benefactor.

Btw, what is that funny touristic "reference" (no 2) about "Greek-Romanian"? Needs correction to "Greek Vlach".--Euzen (talk) 17:49, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• I know Vlachs im Greek, but I just wonder to know what was his language or origin, I know that this region wasnt vlachophonic, but some people make him Vlach.--213.151.217.151 (talk) 19:56, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Numerous publications incorrectly claim that an event held in 1888 (that was neither sponsored by Evangelis Zappas or formally organised by the Olympic Committee that organised the 1859, 1870 and 1875 Olympic Games) was one of the Olympic Games sponsored by Zappas. The 1888 event was held at a gymnasium that was built from the Zappas legacy. The event was organised by an individual and the event did not resemble Olympic Games in any way, shape or form. All those who categorise the 1888 event as an Olympic event are very much mistaken.

Cut and paste from Wikipedia: "After an extended period of litigation between the Greek government and a group of Zappas' relatives over Zappas' bequests, Konstantinos Zappas secured the execution of Zappas' will. The Greek government used Zappas' money to complete the Gymnasterion, a central gym, in 1878, and to continue the work on the Zappeion exhibition center, which had begun in 1873 and was frequently interrupted ... As in 1875, Fokianos took charge of the sporting events (but did so independently of the earlier Olympic Committee), which were postponed up till April 30, 1889. These Games were not co-ordinated by the Olympic Committee that organised the 1859, 1870, and 1875 Zappas Games, but by Fokianos alone. Thirty athletes competed in a variety of disciplines including discus, pole long leap (over a ditch), weightlifting, mast climbing, and rope climbing among others. All participants were clad alike.[2]

In 1890, a royal decree, signed by Crown Prince Constantine and the foreign minister Stephanos Dragoumis, announced that the Olympiad would be reinstated, at four-year intervals, from 1888. The next Olympics were officially planned for 1892, but did not take place due to the Greek government's claim of lack of funding.[23] In the event, the Panathenaic stadium would be used to stage the Olympic Games in 1896, the first to be held under the auspices of the International Olympic Committee.[2]" Nipsonanomhmata (talk) 02:23, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to revert to my last version. The content is sourced, and I don't think the edits are that controversial! Majuru (talk) 22:38, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your sources are unreliable and one heavily outdated. www.fedhonmeksi.com? Kosmas Thesprotos from the early 19th century? Forget it. You are a long time user, you know full well by now that we don't use sources like these in wikipedia. Athenean (talk) 22:49, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's outdated, Thesprotos was published in 1964. Majuru (talk) 18:58, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've checked Thesprotos, he is talking about another village, the one next to Libohova, Labova e Kryqit (of the cross), Zappas was born in Labova e Madhe (Great Labovo). Anyway, Thesprotos was a 19th century scholar, in general we prefer 20th century bibliography (For example Hammond says that Labova e Kryqit is bilingual) Alexikoua (talk) 21:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@Zoupan: You don't like his Aromanian origin so you deleted it.Don't continue with your childish anti-Aromanian ideas.Rolandi+ (talk) 09:10, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The specific reference indeed mentions that he was of Vlach origin, nevertheless I can't verify this posibility from additional material. I would have no objection to add this inside, but there is a lack of an inline citation to check where is this taken from, not to mention that a work titled "History of Greece" is a tertiary (of general nature) source, that should be treated per Wikipedia:Use of tertiary sources.Alexikoua (talk) 11:07, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

These:^{[1] [2] [3]} tell the truth.Rolandi+ (talk) 12:32, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The last work is clearly a secondary source. Thus, it appears this possibility is well supported.Alexikoua (talk) 20:20, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above sources would normally be good additions to the article if they weren't general survey sources that briefly mention Evangelos Zappas and the formation of the modern Olympics. Kaphetzopoulos, for example, focuses on the history of Northern Epirus and only lists the names of "Vlachs" (i.e., Aromanian-speaking Greeks) who contributed to Greece including Evangelos Zappas (Kaphetzopoulos, however, provides no details about the modern Olympics or even about Zappas's historic role in their development). As for Thomopoulos and Smerlas, they only provide a summary of Greek history with no references to primary or even secondary sources (no way to confirm where they're getting their information from). I don't really mind including an Aromanian origin for Zappas, but such an origin is technically fringe since mainstream scholars who've studied the modern Olympics (i.e., Brownell, Decker, Gerlach, Hill, Landry, Landry, Yerlès, etc.) have already determined that Evangelos Zappas was a Greek. Umpire Empire (talk) 20:24, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Vlachs are not Aromanian-speaking Greeks.Don't believe every lie you hear in the Greek media.Also don't delete the Vlach origin anymore.Who said that mainstream scholars claims he was greek?Rolandi+ (talk) 08:18, 3 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Rolandi+: Now I am anti-Aromanian? And you still claim to have the intention to show "the truth"... I am not against inclusion if reliably supported as already said.--Zoupan 05:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Rolandi+: Greek media lies? Are you kidding me? First of all, "Vlachs" is a very broad term applied to different ethnic/linguistic groups with similar pastoral lifestyles. Kaphetzopoulos uses "Vlachs" to specifically refer to Aromanian-speaking Greeks (or perhaps just Greek pastoralists) based on the individuals he lists all of whom were Greeks or at least self-identified as Greeks. But regardless of what Kaphetzopoulos really means when he uses the word "Vlachs", the fact remains that Kaphetzopoulos only lists Zappas as a "Vlach" with no biographical details to substantiate the use of the label. So even if one can interpret the word "Vlachs" in Kaphetzopoulos as strictly meaning "ethnic Aromanians" (whatever that means), Kaphetzopoulos cannot be included in the entry since mainstream historians studying both Zappas and the modern Olympics have already determined that Zappas was a Greek (Zappas himself neither came from an Aromanian family nor self-identified as an "ethnic Aromanian"). And though I personally don't mind adding an Aromanian origin to the article, the inclusion of such an origin violates WP:FRINGE. So I kindly ask that you stop adding fringe nonsense and read the quality mainstream sources already in the article (i.e., Brownell, Decker, Gerlach, Hill, Landry, Landry, Yerlès) all of which describe and classify Evangelos Zappas as a Greek. Umpire Empire (talk) 23:04, 8 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Umpire Empire: Can you prove that the Aromanian origin is fringe? If not stop deleting it.Rolandi+ (talk) 08:40, 9 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Rolandi+: Can you prove that Zappas's Aromanian origin is the consensus among mainstream/specialist scholars? You can't, which is why you keep peddling the weak sources (violating WP:RS and WP:FRINGE) that only mention Zappas's Aromanian origin without any biographical details to back up the claim. If you actually read the reliable sources in the entry that focus on Zappas's background, you'll see that none of them make any mention of Zappas being an Aromanian (if they did, then an Aromanian origin would have been included in the article months ago). So just accept the fact that Zappas was just a Greek and move on, because your unhealthy fixation on Zappas's ethnic origins is beginning to look a lot like disruptive trolling (WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT). Umpire Empire (talk) 22:20, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Umpire Empire: You are more ignorant that I expected.Wikipedia's rules makes it clear that one theory will be included if it isn't proved it is fringe.So stop and this is the last time I say this to you.There are reliable sources for the Aromanian origin and it will be added.Rolandi+ (talk) 14:58, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes there are three sources supporting the Aromanian origin so it will be added.Rolandi+ (talk) 07:14, 4 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]